Hello!!! Man. You are effing crushing the layouts. I have been struggling for days to get logged in to make a comment on my phone. Phenominal work man. Quick question eith the rat layout, is it still gonna suffer from feedback/oscollation and is there anyway to crush the ducking effects (i know the ducking is part of the rat thing, but still).
Thanks! :-) Well, I didn't have any issues with noise and oscillation with this layout. Not sure about "ducking" effect....I really like Rats "as is", the only mod I usually do is reverse wiring for the tone pot so you get treble clockwise. I also usually sub the tone pot for a 50k pot. I think I'll try to build Rat Solo which basically is a Rat with a Big Muff tonestack.
"Ducking", I assume you mean when it feels like the Op Amp is reacting too slowly at high gain giving a fuzzy non-attack. Yes, that's part of the charm. On a VFE Rat clone I substituted the LM308 with a more modern NE5534. You may also try some of the other Op AMps that Rat's have come with.
For oscillation, maybe Fuzzhead can recommend some good buffers?
Just a note on the filter wiring, it should be filter 1 going to D2 and filter 2,3 going to the 1.5k resistor. Just built it with a metal can 308 and it rips!
Okay, of course I got that reversed, here we go again:
Rat is famous for having the tone 'reversed'. The counter clockwise is unaffected, as you turn clockwise you roll off treble. The pot is a variable resistor, so if you wire to lugs 1 and 2, it will have no resistance counter, going to more resistance (clockwise). Lugs 2 and 3 do the opposite (no resistance clockwise, total resistance counter). My understanding is the higher resistance is treble roll off, so traditional way is wire to lugs 1 and 2, as suggested in the comment. That should make the signal unaffected counter clockwise. A lot of people would find it more intuitive to reverse it, which the layout would do. Hope that makes sense, and that I didn't get it reversed (I did).
No, the tone will work in reverse, although all of the tones will still be there. If the factory is also audio taper, then the taper will be off. If you want factory, just adjust as directed in Mulekicker's comment.
I have built this one from the ground up twice in a row, with the same fail result. I get very loud hiss and very quiet effect (barely audible) Second time around I used sockets so I could try different op amps and fets in case I had a bad one.... Could it be I have a whole bad batch of both?!?!
I could do with knowing some good cheap alternative fets and circuits that would work in this circuit to help me troubleshoot...
Both the opa mp and the FET can be replaced with other cheaper parts. The FET is just an output buffer so most N CH J FETs will work. For the op amp, you can use most single op amps. It is a matter of taste which one you will prefer but I really like a LM741 in a Rat.
If you still have issues with other components, I'm afraid you have a builder error. Then we need voltages for both the IC and the transistor to locate where the problem is.
I made a fuzzrocious rat tail a couple days ago. Pretty great rat. I owned a vintage woodcutter and never quite liked it. So I broke it, accidentally, trying to modify it. I like the fuzzrocious better than the vintage personally. Dunno if five pots are quite necessary, but you can dial in whatever you want with it. Turbo to classic and well beyond.
I saw that layout and it did pique my interest! Let's get to the bottom of why this one isn't working first.... Really hoping the new mosfet solves the issue!
The new mosfet worked! Sadly the filter does nothing and I'm stuck with a very dark sound. I tried both wiring options. It's heartbreaking because the pedal sound great... there's just no treble.
Hey, Ian! Don't give up. You probably have a short at the Filter control connections since something is bypassing the Filter control. Check bridges, cuts and component placements. It will be rewarding when you sort it out and rocking it!
Ok final word on the filter control. Per layout is clockwise for brighter, but the taper of feels a little bit off. Might be better with a linear pot. I've wired mine as Per Michael's suggestion, which is is brighter counterclockwise, like the originals - the taper feels more even.
Demo sounds pretty cool Ian. I’m still mad at myself for trashing my vintage one but in truth I’ve been patching it up and messing with it ever since a guy I was in a band with gave it to me thinking it was broken. It was a crap input and my first pedal fix. I plan on trying Fuzzhead’s Dronestortion once I get the proper pot ordered. Ian, you should build an Earthquaker Acapulco Gold and play your new Rat into it for Sunn0)))) tones. Best one knob fuzz ever.
Yea I may have too do that I was building it for a friend who wanted a rat with a green ringer then wanted some clipping options afterwards.I hate to scrap a good circuit though
Hey Ian, I've been looking at the JHS series 3 distortion. Do you think its one of the better Tubescreamer offerings. I'm looking for a good TS but with so many out there its hard to choose
I usually take a break. Relax and have a beer or whatever and then when you're ready just casually look at it and check your work. If it seems right you should first knife your tracks and make sure you have no bridges. Also make sure your solder joints are good. Then try other IC's and FET's they can both be temperamental.
Hey, Well tbh that's what I did ^^ I changed the IC and the FET with other that workfs (after checking on other pedals) and still 0 sound when the pedal is engaged. I think I didn't wire it correctly. Do you know where I can find a wiring diagram?
The wiring should be relatively straightforward. If you can post a picture I'm sure someone can help. I used to have a lotta trouble trying to work out grounding. Easiest way is to use the star pattern. All grounds to the sleeve of the input jack and then a wire from there to the DC jack ground.
I like it haha. Everything looks kosher except for the grounding as I suggested. Everything should go to the same point. So the switch ground, the board ground, the output jack ground (optional if using an aluminum enclosure), and the DC jack should all connect to one point. Easiest and most commonly the input jack. Let us know if that fixes the problem.
Yes will do. However, I'm confused, why there is not board output? Because I thought there are always a board output and a jack output. To me the problem comes from there. The sound just enter but has no way out.
I totally missed it somehow the first time I looked at your sketch. Volume 2 should connect to your switch, not to the output jack. Lug 2 of your volume is the board out not the output jack connect. This is what Ian was trying to point out. You have output from your switch and board out going to the same place. Lug 2 connects to the upper right most switch pin. That should do it.
Hello!!! Man. You are effing crushing the layouts. I have been struggling for days to get logged in to make a comment on my phone. Phenominal work man.
ReplyDeleteQuick question eith the rat layout, is it still gonna suffer from feedback/oscollation and is there anyway to crush the ducking effects (i know the ducking is part of the rat thing, but still).
Thanks! :-) Well, I didn't have any issues with noise and oscillation with this layout. Not sure about "ducking" effect....I really like Rats "as is", the only mod I usually do is reverse wiring for the tone pot so you get treble clockwise. I also usually sub the tone pot for a 50k pot. I think I'll try to build Rat Solo which basically is a Rat with a Big Muff tonestack.
Delete"Ducking", I assume you mean when it feels like the Op Amp is reacting too slowly at high gain giving a fuzzy non-attack. Yes, that's part of the charm. On a VFE Rat clone I substituted the LM308 with a more modern NE5534. You may also try some of the other Op AMps that Rat's have come with.
DeleteFor oscillation, maybe Fuzzhead can recommend some good buffers?
Just a note on the filter wiring, it should be filter 1 going to D2 and filter 2,3 going to the 1.5k resistor. Just built it with a metal can 308 and it rips!
ReplyDeleteWhat's the deal with the above comment?
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what to do now 😬
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOkay, of course I got that reversed, here we go again:
ReplyDeleteRat is famous for having the tone 'reversed'. The counter clockwise is unaffected, as you turn clockwise you roll off treble. The pot is a variable resistor, so if you wire to lugs 1 and 2, it will have no resistance counter, going to more resistance (clockwise). Lugs 2 and 3 do the opposite (no resistance clockwise, total resistance counter). My understanding is the higher resistance is treble roll off, so traditional way is wire to lugs 1 and 2, as suggested in the comment. That should make the signal unaffected counter clockwise. A lot of people would find it more intuitive to reverse it, which the layout would do. Hope that makes sense, and that I didn't get it reversed (I did).
I've gone cross-eyed🤦🏼♂️🤣 (thank you for trying though)
ReplyDeleteIf stick to the layout, will it be like the factory version?
No, the tone will work in reverse, although all of the tones will still be there. If the factory is also audio taper, then the taper will be off. If you want factory, just adjust as directed in Mulekicker's comment.
DeleteNice one. Thank you 👍👍👍
DeleteI have built this one from the ground up twice in a row, with the same fail result.
ReplyDeleteI get very loud hiss and very quiet effect (barely audible)
Second time around I used sockets so I could try different op amps and fets in case I had a bad one.... Could it be I have a whole bad batch of both?!?!
I could do with knowing some good cheap alternative fets and circuits that would work in this circuit to help me troubleshoot...
Both the opa mp and the FET can be replaced with other cheaper parts. The FET is just an output buffer so most N CH J FETs will work.
DeleteFor the op amp, you can use most single op amps. It is a matter of taste which one you will prefer but I really like a LM741 in a Rat.
If you still have issues with other components, I'm afraid you have a builder error. Then we need voltages for both the IC and the transistor to locate where the problem is.
Thank you ... I've heard about some fake FETs knocking around so that will be my first try
DeleteIan, do you get signal before the FET? as in right after the op amp, where the clipping diodes are?
DeleteTry the wire called " Filter 1,2" as your output wire. Do you get sound?
DeleteI've ordered some mpf105 jfets from a UK supplier so hopefully that might work.
ReplyDeleteAlex.... I'll wait for the new fet...if things still don't work I'll get the iron out and start experimenting. 🤞👍
ReplyDeleteI made a fuzzrocious rat tail a couple days ago. Pretty great rat. I owned a vintage woodcutter and never quite liked it. So I broke it, accidentally, trying to modify it. I like the fuzzrocious better than the vintage personally. Dunno if five pots are quite necessary, but you can dial in whatever you want with it. Turbo to classic and well beyond.
ReplyDeleteI saw that layout and it did pique my interest! Let's get to the bottom of why this one isn't working first.... Really hoping the new mosfet solves the issue!
DeleteThe new mosfet worked! Sadly the filter does nothing and I'm stuck with a very dark sound. I tried both wiring options.
ReplyDeleteIt's heartbreaking because the pedal sound great... there's just no treble.
No more rats for me.
Hey, Ian!
DeleteDon't give up. You probably have a short at the Filter control connections since something is bypassing the Filter control. Check bridges, cuts and component placements.
It will be rewarding when you sort it out and rocking it!
Bad pot, wasn't it!
ReplyDeleteThis build has been emotional 🤦🏼♂️🤣
I have a rat!
Thank you 🤜🤛
Ok final word on the filter control.
ReplyDeletePer layout is clockwise for brighter, but the taper of feels a little bit off. Might be better with a linear pot.
I've wired mine as Per Michael's suggestion, which is is brighter counterclockwise, like the originals - the taper feels more even.
Thank you everybody.
Yeah, with the wiring as on the above layout the filter pot should be anti-log - 100k/C.
Deletehttps://youtu.be/vKDXTmWUulQ
ReplyDeleteDemo sounds pretty cool Ian. I’m still mad at myself for trashing my vintage one but in truth I’ve been patching it up and messing with it ever since a guy I was in a band with gave it to me thinking it was broken. It was a crap input and my first pedal fix. I plan on trying Fuzzhead’s Dronestortion once I get the proper pot ordered. Ian, you should build an Earthquaker Acapulco Gold and play your new Rat into it for Sunn0)))) tones. Best one knob fuzz ever.
ReplyDeleteHey I have already built this I was wondering how I would add some clipping options with a switch Thanks
ReplyDeleteI'd take a look at the jhs series 3 distortion....it looks pretty much like this but with switchable diodes
DeleteYea I may have too do that I was building it for a friend who wanted a rat with a green ringer then wanted some clipping options afterwards.I hate to scrap a good circuit though
ReplyDeleteHey Ian, I've been looking at the JHS series 3 distortion. Do you think its one of the better Tubescreamer offerings. I'm looking for a good TS but with so many out there its hard to choose
ReplyDeleteYou mean the overdrive, right?
DeleteIt looks like from the comments people aren't quite happy with it...
(I built the dinosaural tube bender and never looked back - it's the best kept secret in the pedalverse!)
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey guys! Just finished this built, it works on by pass but when the pedal is engaged I get no sound. Any ideas from where it could come from?
ReplyDeleteI usually take a break. Relax and have a beer or whatever and then when you're ready just casually look at it and check your work. If it seems right you should first knife your tracks and make sure you have no bridges. Also make sure your solder joints are good. Then try other IC's and FET's they can both be temperamental.
ReplyDeleteHey,
DeleteWell tbh that's what I did ^^ I changed the IC and the FET with other that workfs (after checking on other pedals) and still 0 sound when the pedal is engaged. I think I didn't wire it correctly. Do you know where I can find a wiring diagram?
The wiring should be relatively straightforward. If you can post a picture I'm sure someone can help. I used to have a lotta trouble trying to work out grounding. Easiest way is to use the star pattern. All grounds to the sleeve of the input jack and then a wire from there to the DC jack ground.
ReplyDeleteHey, ok I tried to sketch sth hahaha
DeleteI hope you can open it: https://zupimages.net/up/22/19/qdmf.png
I like it haha. Everything looks kosher except for the grounding as I suggested. Everything should go to the same point. So the switch ground, the board ground, the output jack ground (optional if using an aluminum enclosure), and the DC jack should all connect to one point. Easiest and most commonly the input jack. Let us know if that fixes the problem.
DeleteHuh it still doesn't fix the issue. But anyway thanks for your help. When i'll have more time i'll try to audio probe it and see what I can do ^^
DeleteVolume 2 should go to pin 7 (top right corner on the footswitch, not the output jack
DeleteYes I also did that, no change.
DeleteThe only thing you can do is check for solder bridges, component values, etc...
ReplyDeleteYes will do.
DeleteHowever, I'm confused, why there is not board output?
Because I thought there are always a board output and a jack output. To me the problem comes from there. The sound just enter but has no way out.
I totally missed it somehow the first time I looked at your sketch. Volume 2 should connect to your switch, not to the output jack. Lug 2 of your volume is the board out not the output jack connect. This is what Ian was trying to point out. You have output from your switch and board out going to the same place. Lug 2 connects to the upper right most switch pin. That should do it.
ReplyDeleteOk but my output jack is connected to the middle right most switch pin (so the one right beside upper right most)?
DeleteIf yes, I still get no sound.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-my24V2ib658/W1AOFKhkyJI/AAAAAAAAEVM/8hmEAVc9x08AFavpGKLEVHG9VHhpE4fOQCLcBGAs/s1600/3pdtSwitchWiring.gif
ReplyDeleteThanks for that, that's what I have. Honestly I'm not very sure where the problem is coming from. I'll try to do it again and let you guys know
Delete